Category Archives: Debaltsevo

Kiev officer on Debalcevo HQ incompetence and self organized breakout



Comment by the Saker:

This is a very interesting interview.  First, it basically confirms everything the Novorussians were saying.  But secondly, the officer speaking, Andrei Vysota, CO of 25th "Kievan Rus" battalion, declares at the end that even though Poroshenko awarded the title and medal to Commander Sergei Shaptala of the 128th Mukachevo mountain infantry brigade just to make him shut up, Shaptala did deserve that medal for having had the courage to order a retreat.

From the point of view of the Russian military ethos, this is an amazing statement for the following reasons:

1) Russian officers always are at the frontline with their soldiers.  This is why a Russian General was seriously wounded in South Ossetia, and this is why we have all seen Givi, Motorola, Mozgovoi and even Zakharchenko right on the very front line, a few hundred yards from the junta forces.  In contrast, Shaptala himself fled the Debaltsevo Cauldron and he gave his order from afar.

2) What risk did Shaptala actually take?  He took the risk of being demoted, possibly face insubordination or even (let's worst case) treason charges.  Although, in reality, all he risked was basically to damage his future career.  But even if he did face demotion or court martial, this is *nothing* compared to what his men faced and for that *nothing* he deserves the title of Hero of the Ukraine?!  From a Russian point of view this is totally crazy.

3) Finally, Vysota openly admit that Shaptala got the medal of Hero of the Ukraine as a bribe to make him shut up directly implying that all it takes to make a Hero of the Ukraine shut up about the truth about the death of his own man is to give him a medal he does not even deserve in the first place!

I am absolutely amazed by all this.  Apparently, the Ukrainian forces have not only failed to develop their own ethos, they were not even capable of maintaining even a little of the ethos of the Soviet military where to get a medal of "Hero of the Soviet Union" one had to do something quite heroic indeed.

If Shaptala is the best the junta has, then no wonder that their forces are losing every battle and that they get beat by men like Bezler, Mozgovoi, Motorola, Givi, Kononov, Zakharchenko and all the other Novorussian commanders every single one of which personally fought on the front line and many of whom were wounded in battle.

I will be honest with you, every time I see one of the Novorussian commanders on the frontline, I am personally horrified and appalled.  I got all my military training in the West were a general belongs into a hardened bunker packed with advanced communication gear and protected from pretty much anything short of a nuclear strike.  But I also have to admit that having the commanders in the front lines makes a huge difference.  This has always been a Russian military tradition for many centuries, and this has also been a German one (during WWII German general did fight with their men in the front lines).  I recognize the superiority of that approach, but it still horrifies me (-: This is what you get for being born in old Russian military family but having been trained in western Europe: a strong cognitive dissonance when your two cultures take radically different positions :-)

Lastly, I really feel sorry, from the bottom of my heart, for the men uselessly killed in Debaltsevo.  Did you get the part when Vysota said that when the Ukies tried to evacuate their *wounded* they all got killed by the Novorussian artillery?  Can you imagine being wounded in a battle you cannot win, then being evacuated in trucks only to die being ripped into shreds or incinerated by artillery strikes?

May God rest the souls of these poor men who suffered and died in horrible circumstances and for nothing other then the political arrogance, ambitions and incompetence of a junta of Nazi freaks.

The Saker

PS: one more thing.  Under Stalin every single junta officer responsible for this outrageous disaster would have been summarily executed.  Just saying...

Kiev officer on Debalcevo HQ incompetence and self organized breakout



Comment by the Saker:

This is a very interesting interview.  First, it basically confirms everything the Novorussians were saying.  But secondly, the officer speaking, Andrei Vysota, CO of 25th "Kievan Rus" battalion, declares at the end that even though Poroshenko awarded the title and medal to Commander Sergei Shaptala of the 128th Mukachevo mountain infantry brigade just to make him shut up, Shaptala did deserve that medal for having had the courage to order a retreat.

From the point of view of the Russian military ethos, this is an amazing statement for the following reasons:

1) Russian officers always are at the frontline with their soldiers.  This is why a Russian General was seriously wounded in South Ossetia, and this is why we have all seen Givi, Motorola, Mozgovoi and even Zakharchenko right on the very front line, a few hundred yards from the junta forces.  In contrast, Shaptala himself fled the Debaltsevo Cauldron and he gave his order from afar.

2) What risk did Shaptala actually take?  He took the risk of being demoted, possibly face insubordination or even (let's worst case) treason charges.  Although, in reality, all he risked was basically to damage his future career.  But even if he did face demotion or court martial, this is *nothing* compared to what his men faced and for that *nothing* he deserves the title of Hero of the Ukraine?!  From a Russian point of view this is totally crazy.

3) Finally, Vysota openly admit that Shaptala got the medal of Hero of the Ukraine as a bribe to make him shut up directly implying that all it takes to make a Hero of the Ukraine shut up about the truth about the death of his own man is to give him a medal he does not even deserve in the first place!

I am absolutely amazed by all this.  Apparently, the Ukrainian forces have not only failed to develop their own ethos, they were not even capable of maintaining even a little of the ethos of the Soviet military where to get a medal of "Hero of the Soviet Union" one had to do something quite heroic indeed.

If Shaptala is the best the junta has, then no wonder that their forces are losing every battle and that they get beat by men like Bezler, Mozgovoi, Motorola, Givi, Kononov, Zakharchenko and all the other Novorussian commanders every single one of which personally fought on the front line and many of whom were wounded in battle.

I will be honest with you, every time I see one of the Novorussian commanders on the frontline, I am personally horrified and appalled.  I got all my military training in the West were a general belongs into a hardened bunker packed with advanced communication gear and protected from pretty much anything short of a nuclear strike.  But I also have to admit that having the commanders in the front lines makes a huge difference.  This has always been a Russian military tradition for many centuries, and this has also been a German one (during WWII German general did fight with their men in the front lines).  I recognize the superiority of that approach, but it still horrifies me (-: This is what you get for being born in old Russian military family but having been trained in western Europe: a strong cognitive dissonance when your two cultures take radically different positions :-)

Lastly, I really feel sorry, from the bottom of my heart, for the men uselessly killed in Debaltsevo.  Did you get the part when Vysota said that when the Ukies tried to evacuate their *wounded* they all got killed by the Novorussian artillery?  Can you imagine being wounded in a battle you cannot win, then being evacuated in trucks only to die being ripped into shreds or incinerated by artillery strikes?

May God rest the souls of these poor men who suffered and died in horrible circumstances and for nothing other then the political arrogance, ambitions and incompetence of a junta of Nazi freaks.

The Saker

PS: one more thing.  Under Stalin every single junta officer responsible for this outrageous disaster would have been summarily executed.  Just saying...

Yet another monumental failure for the junta

All my sources confirm that Debaltsevo is mostly in Novorussian hands and that the junta forces are in full retreat to the south of the pocket.  All the top Novorussian brass was on hand today, including Kononov, Motorola, Givi, Mozgovoi and Zakharchenko as were many tens of Ukrainian prisoners.  It appears that the junta forces were unable to provide the kind of resistance they showed in Peski, and that make sense because in Peski they were not surrounded and they had the fire support of Ukrainian forces just north and west of them.  This time the cauldron is too deep and the "lid" too strong.  See for yourself.

Debaltsevo AO as of Tue Feb 17 2010 GMT
You can see that the cauldron "lid" has now closed on Debaltsevo from the north and that the junta forces are either surrendering of fleeing south where there is quite literally nothing for them to do then to wait until they run out of food and ammo.  Bottom line: it's over for the Ukie forces in the Debaltsevo cauldron.

Amazingly, the freaks in Kiev as still insisting that there is no cauldron but only a "bridgehead".  The good news is that apparently nobody buys that nonsense any more and the mothers and wifes of the men caught in the cauldron are trying everything they can to force the Ukie high command to accept the Novorussian offer of an evacuation corridor.  The try to protest in front of the General Staff building in Kiev, then the blocked traffic.  In a particularly poignant moment one of these women put a megaphone next to a cellphone to amplify the voice of her son/husband calling from the cauldron and announcing that they had for about 3 hours of supplies left.

All this is truly catastrophic news for the junta in Kiev.  First, their policy of denying the issue made it impossible for their forces to get out while it was still possible.  According to Russian military experts, about half of all the (comparatively) combat capable units of the Ukrainian military have been surrounded in this cauldron and that means that 50% of the Ukrainian army is now gone.  Second, while Poroshenko and the junta freaks tried as hard as they could to completely deny the very existence of the cauldron, thanks to the Internet and the Russian TV channels most folks in junta-controlled Ukraine know that they are being lied to.  That, in turns, means that the regime is loosing the very little credibility it might have had with the general public.  Last and not least, now there will be a lot of very ugly recriminations from all sides of the political spectrum about who is guilty for that latest disaster.  I would not be surprised one bit if the Ukrainian death-squads (aka Azov battalion & Co.) decided to storm Kiev for two reasons:  a) to take out their rage on the regime and b) because it is safer to storm Kiev than Donetsk.  Poroshenko better watch his back now.  By the way, rumor (unconfirmed!) has it that he already evacuated his family to Germany.

Novorussian intel is reporting that the junta is trying to assemble three battalion tactical groups and numerous MLRS north of the cauldron to try to rescue the surrounded forces, but this will be too little too late.  The Novorussians are used to Ukie artillery and they don't fear their armor or, even less so, infantry.  Besides, I bet you that now that they are inside Debaltsevo, the Novorussians will deeply dig in.  When is the last time that the junta forces succeeded in an urban assault operation?  Exactly.

Bottom line: yet another brilliant victory for the Novorussian forces and yet another humiliating defeat for the junta in Kiev.

The Saker